Will Internet TV Make Cable and Satellite TV Extinct?

There are two kinds of TV, live and recorded.  Internet TV sites like Hulu have already proven how well they can handle recorded TV shows.  Internet TV even does away with the need for a digital video recorder (DVR).  Think of a show, find it, watch it.  Internet TV like Hulu is even better than broadcast, cable or satellite for sponsors because viewers are required to watch the commercials.  And as long as they have such limited commercials as they do now, I don’t mind watching them.  Otherwise I’ll pay for streaming services like Netflix to be commercial free.

Where Internet TV is weak is for live broadcasts, like for sports and 24/7 news.  The infrastructure of cable and satellite systems have far more bandwidth for handling live television.  That won’t always be so, because I’m sure some kind of broadcast Internet technology will emerge to solve that problem and people will be watching live TV on their iPhones, iPads, netbooks, notebooks, desktops, HTPCs and Internet TV sets.

Digital technology ate the music industry, and is about to eat the book, newspaper, magazine and television industries.  I gave up cable TV months ago and for recorded shows I’m in hog heaven by using the Internet TV, which includes streaming Netflix.  I also supplement by viewing diet with snail-mail Netflix discs, but I see where that habit could be phased out too.  The only reason to get a disc now is for the picture quality of Bluray.  Future bandwidth will wipe out that technology too.

Owning music CDs and video DVDs seem so pointless now.  I wonder how that’s going to impact the economy and effect the entertainment business.  It also makes me wonder about my efforts of building an easy to use HTPC.  I’m struggling to get perfect Bluray playback through my HTPC computer, wondering if I should spend $80 for better software, knowing full well in the not too distance future I’ll phase out Bluray too.  The HTPC has phased out the LG BD390 Bluray player I bought just last year, and an Internet TV set could phase out my HTPC.


Last night my friend Janis had us watch Bigger Than Life on Bluray because NPR had praised this old James Mason movie so highly.  The flick wasn’t very entertaining, but it was fascinating.  The Bluray presentation of this 1956 CinemaScope production was stunning in 1080p high definition, showing intricate shadows and vivid colors.  Internet TV and streaming Netflix can’t provide that kind of resolution right now, but I imagine it will before 2015.

Technology is moving so fast that we buy devices we want to throw away in a year or two.  Growing up my folks wanted appliances and TVs that would last 15 years.  I remember Ma Bell phones lasting over twenty years.  I’ve had my 52” inch high definition TV for only three years and I’m already lusting for a new set.  Will technology ever settle down again so we can buy something that will last a generation?  I think it might.  Of course it will be terrible for the economy, but I can imagine TV technology that would satisfy me and take the ants out of my pants to have something better.

My perfect TV will still be a 1080p HDTV like we have today.  I’m pretty sure we can go decades without changing the broadcast standards again.  It will have a digital tuner to handle over-the-air broadcasts (in case the net goes down) and an Ethernet jack and WiFi for Internet TV.  It will have two removable bays.  One for a computer brain that can be upgraded, and another for a SSD hard drive.  As Internet TV is perfected the need for a local DVR will be diminished.  That will also be true for an upgradable CPU.  There will be no cable or satellite TV.  Everything will come to us by TCP/IP.  Broadcast will remain for the poor and for when the Internet fails.  Cable and satellite TV will go the way of the record store.  I also assume all Internet access will be wireless, but it will take 5-10 years to phase out wires.  Now that doesn’t mean cable and satellite companies will go under.  I expect them to buy into the Internet TV revolution.  I do get my internet access from Comcast.

Most people will think I’m crazy by predicting the extinction of cable and satellite TV.  They can’t picture living without all that choice.  That’s because of the channel switching mindset.  We have always thought of what’s on TV by flipping through the channels, even though very little TV is live.  Most of TV is recorded, and we fake immediate diversity by offering 200 concurrent channels to watch.  Eventually the only channels to watch will be live, because other technology makes it easier to find recorded shows ourselves.

Live TV will go through a renaissance.  Cable and satellite TV systems are still the best technology for live TV, and they will hang on to their audiences for another ten or twenty years as Internet broadcast TV is perfected.  However, guerrilla TV is emerging on the net, and micro audiences are evolving.  For the big networks, how many Today like morning shows will we need for live TV?  How many channels to promote sports?  How many to 24/7 talking head news and reality shows do we need?  How many live PBS networks will we need?  Will audience gather around central networks or seek out specialized Internet broadcasters catering to their personal interests?

Ultimately, how much TV really needs to be live?  Even 24/7 news shows spend a lot of time repeating themselves.  Live TV is leisurely.   The hours of the Today show are filled with just minutes of quality content, most of the time is fluff and commercials.  And if an opera is filmed live for PBS does it really need to be seen live?  Survivor and Amazing Race would be tedious if live.

When the flipping the channels metaphor dies out, and library checkout metaphor gains popularity, TV viewing will change.  People love football, war and car chases live, but will even that change too?  If you were sitting with you iPad killing some time, will you think, “Hey let’s watch the game in Miami,” or will you want to play a game or watch something recorded?   I can easily imagine sites of “WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW!” start showing up, listing thousands of events going on around the world.  TCP/IP technology will work better to provide that kind of service than cable or satellite.

Until you play with Internet TV you won’t understand what I’m saying.  You’ve got to sleep with the pods or drink the Kool-Aid to buy in.  Start with streaming Netflix and Hulu.

And if people love cell phones, Facebook and Twitter to stay in constant contact won’t they love live TV from their friends.  Instead of watching the crew of the Today show have fun, why not video link all your friends and create your own morning show?  And the emergence of spy networks will also change viewing habits.  If every daycare and classroom had web cams, wouldn’t parents spend more time watching them?  Won’t all the web cams in the world grabbing eyeballs destroy the audiences of the 200 channels of national networks?

We can’t predict the future.  Growing up in the 1960s I never imagined anything like the Internet.  All I can predict is change and more of it.  But I’m also going to predict that once the Internet and digital upheaval is over, we might settle down to a slower pace of change.  Well, until artificial intelligence arrives or we make SETI contact with distant civilizations.

Recommended Reading:

JWH – 4/10/10

Building A HTPC

One thing I’ve wanted to do for decades is build my own PC.  But whenever I needed a new PC I’d price one in the Sunday ads and always discovered that a PC on sale is cheaper then building one.  For the last year I’ve been dreaming of building a home theater PC (HTPC) and I finally did.  Best Buy had a much better PC, with an Intel i3 chip with 6gb of memory for sale for $549.  So far, my home built HTPC with an AMD Athlon X2 Rigor 240 and 4gb of memory has been about $650, and that’s even using an existing TV tuner card, and I still need to buy some more stuff, like a remote and maybe better Blu-ray software.  Even the $549 price would have been a base, because I had to buy a wireless keyboard and mouse.

I based my buying decision on Guide to Building a HD HTPC March 2010 edition.

What finally pushed me over the edge was I really wanted the dang thing to look like a piece of stereo equipment and not a PC, and that meant building it myself.  Oh sure, I could have ordered a ready made HTPC, but it would have been hundreds more.  I spend a lot of time browsing NewEgg and reading the customer reviews and figured I could build a HTPC too.  So a couple weeks ago I started ordering the parts.


The last thing I ordered was the memory (after reading the motherboard instructions very carefully) and I got lucky with free shipping from NewEgg.  However, I wasn’t so lucky.  The memory shipped from Memphis, and I live in Memphis, so when I saw the tracking info I thought I’d get it the next day.  The following day my RAM was in Georgia.  I wonder if DHL has a hub there.  The lesson here and from Amazon is free shipping means delayed shipping, both from NewEgg and Amazon, and slow travel times.  But it all worked out.  I had a bad spell with my back and it wasn’t until yesterday that I felt like putting everything together.

A word of warning though to people who are thinking about building their own PC.  As the parts starting coming in and piling up on my table it occurred to me that if any of them were defective or incompatible I’d have a hard time knowing.  When you buy a PC it comes assembled and tested with a warranty.  When you build one, there is no warranty for the whole, and it’s very easy to damage these sensitive parts, so troubleshooting can be nasty, especially if a part is defective from the start.  This got me worried about the whole plan.

Yesterday morning, after a good night’s sleep, a shower and breakfast, I jumped into the project.  I reread the various instructions and started work.  I was very lucky, everything went smoothly.  I carefully tested where I was going to install things before I actually installed anything.  When I first tried to install the power supply none of the screw holes lined up.  Finally I turned it upside-down and they did.  Go figure.

I was afraid of two things before I started.  Installing the motherboard and installing the heat sink.  Both were a snap.  The stand-offs were already installed in the enclosure and all I had to do was line them up with the holes in the motherboard.  I got a whole bag of various screws and only the smallest fit.  None of my instructions explained which exact screws to use at any point.  I had to guess.  The heat sink had a pad of pre-installed thermal paste and it snapped right on.  That’s why I bought the retail box for the AMD chip.  I didn’t want to worry about matching a heat sink and applying thermal paste myself.

The worst trouble I had was figuring out where all the wires from the HTPC case went to the motherboard connectors, like power, reset, USB, Firewire, media card readers, etc.  The power SW and reset SW gave me the worst time because the pins had a ground pin and I didn’t know which wire was the ground.  I got on Google and found out the black or white wire was the ground.  And everything was teeny tiny and I have fat clumsy fingers.

When I finally had everything assembled and flicked on the power supply switch nothing happen. I had a sinking feeling that, oh no, I did something wrong.  But I didn’t panic.  I thought for a second and remembered there was a power button on the front of the unit and I pressed it.  All four fans started spinning, but totally quiet.  The boot up screens appeared and then the Windows install disc booted.  Damn, I was happy.


Here’s my messy table at that point.  I used little glass bowls to keep the screws sorted.  After Windows 7 easily installed, I threw on the PowerDVD 8 that came with the Lite-On Blu-ray player.  I was worried it wouldn’t work with Windows 7 and wouldn’t play Blu-ray discs.  It ran just fine and played a Weeds BD disc I had.  PowerDVD is now at version 10, and I thought the version 8 wouldn’t be good enough.   So far it has.

After I ran all the OS updates I moved the unit over to my TV stand.  I have an old Samsung 52” DLP HDTV.  That’s when I discovered I really needed a wireless keyboard.  I had to use the wired keyboard and mouse about 1 foot in front of my TV and it’s hard to see the 1920×1080 screen that close.  So a quick trip to Office Depot got me a cheap Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse.  It only promised 10 feet of range, but so far it’s been good enough.

I was able to sit in my chair and configure Windows Media Center, Hulu, Netflix, Lala and Boxee.  For some reason Rhapsody wouldn’t install.  I’m worried its not compatible with Windows 7 64bit version.  [It installed smoothly on my second attempt and everything is cool.]  I also configured the Home Network under Windows 7 so my Jim-TV could see my Jim-PC and access my MP3 files.

It’s weird using a mouse instead of a remote, so I need to research remotes that will work with all my programs.  Hulu and Windows Media Center have wonderful interfaces that are usable across the den.  So does Boxee, but Boxee is giving me trouble – it can’t seem to play Hulu shows.  Is there a remote that works with all of these programs and even IE 8?  I wished that Lala had a local client.  I can play Rhapsody through the web client, but I want to try the local client on the big TV.  Boxee is a wonderful concept, having one central location to play all the media types offered on the web, but it hasn’t worked out perfectly.  But that requires more testing, and it’s still in beta.

Windows Media Center reports I have room for 1086.5 hours of recorded TV shows.  I bought a 1.5TB drive.  I figure I might make my HTPC my home server too.  I need to research if Windows Home Server wouldn’t have been a better OS instead of Professional 64 bit.  I just don’t know.  I also programmed a week’s worth of TV shows from the Windows Media Center Guide.

My goal was to build a machine that replaces my Blu-Ray player, my Toshiba DVD recorder, my Pioneer CD/SACD player, and my SoundBridge M1001, and several functions I could only do from my regular PC.  Since I gave up cable TV I’ve had no problem living with just five local channels (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS1, PBS2) but I missed my DVR and onscreen guide.  Windows Media Center gives me a DVR and guide.  What’s still missing is an easy to use remote.  I need a remote that can power up the Samsung TV and Yamaha receiver – I’ll leave the HTPC running at all times.  (Jim-TV goes into a very low powered sleep mode that it can wake from to record shows).

This brings up another issue.  When it wakes up my HTPC wants me to log in.  That means using the keyboard.  I’d like to skip the log in but is that wise when it comes to security?  I don’t’ know.  Another thing to research.  But it would be nice if I could get a remote that turned on everything and the computer would just start working.  I want to only use the keyboard if I want to use the Internet at the TV, otherwise do everything from the remote or mouse.

The mouse works fine from a chair arm or side of the couch if I’m lying down, but not everything can be controlled from a mouse pointer.  I just got a wild idea.  I wonder if I could make the TV voice activated?  Now that would be cool!

Ultimately I want to make the entire system extremely easy to use.  My wife has been very grumpy since I gave up cable and the DVR.  (She works and lives out of town and has her own cable TV – so I don’t feel guilty about depriving her.)  She hates not being able to pause the TV.  Windows Media Center now gives her that ability, but by using the wireless mouse instead of a standard remote.  That’s a weird shift. 

I have a remote that came with the Hauppauge TV turner card, and I have an older Logitech Harmony universal programmable remote.  I’m going to try to make one of those work before buying anything else.  However, that’s a lot to make work together.  Sound comes from the receiver, which has its own remote.  Windows Media Center works with WMC remotes, but I’m not sure they work with Hulu or Netflix or IE.  I can play Netflix through Windows Media Center, so that solves one issue, maybe. 

And it’s a shame that Windows Media Center doesn’t have the same ambitions at Boxee.  If Windows Media Center did everything I could have the machine auto load it and just stay in that program.  It would be wonderful if Windows Media Center made a special browser for viewing the Internet and accessing programs and files on the PC.  Seeing the Windows desktop at 1920×1080 makes everything tiny and hard to see across the room even when blown up to a 52” monitor.  I had to boost the visibility by telling Windows to magnify the desktop by 150%.  That helps, but is not perfect.  The TV screen mode for Windows Media Center, Hulu desktop and Boxee is the answer.  Their interfaces are design to be viewed from ten feet away.

There is a wealth of TV shows that weren’t available to me before that comes over the Internet.  I’m not sure I like that.  I love the simplicity of local stations, but I am enjoying Caprica.  Sometimes I think I would be happiest with only watching Netflix discs that come in the mail.  Except for news and the latest documentaries about contemporary events, I’d be perfectly OK with watching TV from Netflix discs.  For example I love the new show Parenthood.  But I hear it doesn’t have good ratings.  If they kill the show I’ll be mad.  I’m getting to the point that I rather only watch a TV series if I know the season is complete, or if its a one season wonder that was cut short but wrapped up nicely, like with Freaks and Geeks.

In other words, having a HTPC might be overkill for my simplified lifestyle.  However, I have accomplished something on my bucket list and that was fun.  I do prefer watching DVR recorded shows to watching them live.  And it’s nice to know I have a machine recording my favorite shows when I’m not home to watch them.

JWH – 4/4/10

Update 8/27/10:  Overall I’m satisfied with my project except for the Blu-ray player.  First off, it turned out to only be a BD/CD/DVD player.  I was expecting it to also be a CD/DVD burner, but it wasn’t.  So watch out.  But more importantly, the PC Blu-ray software is unusable in my opinion.  I pulled the Blu-ray player out of my system and installed a CD/DVD burner, and went back to using my LG Blu-ray player.  If Microsoft added support for Blu-ray in Windows Media Center I would try again, but playing Blu-ray discs on a PC is clunky with existing software.

I think for a HTPC to succeed it needs one media center type program that does everything.  It’s even annoying to switch between WMC, Hulu and Boxee.  I don’t want a dozen competing programs offering me television.  What’s happened is I use WMC for watching recorded over the air TV shows, and Netflix for everything else.

HTPC Advice Wanted

I want to build my own Home Theater PC (HTPC) but I have a number of decisions to make that I hope readers can advise me on.  I want to build a low-cost HTPC that also uses as little energy as possible, especially since I will need to leave the machine on 24×7.  The demands of a HTPC can be high, so I’m worried that a green low-powered chip might compromise the project.  I’ve read reviews of a Polywell Mini-ITX HTPC with a  N330 Atom dual processor combined with an NVIDIA ION chipset, using just 23-30w of electricity, but is it powerful enough to do the job?  And is onboard graphics good enough, or will I need a discrete graphics card?  Finally, I’d like my custom HTPC to replace several machines connected to my 52” Samsung DLP HDTV:

  • LG Blu-ray player
  • Pioneer CD/SACD player
  • Toshiba DVD recorder
  • Yamaha 5.1 receiver/amp
  • Roku SoundBridge M1001 media extender

I doubt I can find an internal Blu-Ray optical drive for my HTPC that can replace my SACD player, so it might be time to give up on that technology. I never bought more than a dozen SACDs anyway, but I will miss them.

I want my HTPC to do:

  • Record over-the-air HD broadcasts
  • Offer an elegant program guide to work with the DVR
  • Burn DVDs from shows recorded with DVR
  • Play Blu-Ray and DVD movies
  • Stream video from Netflix and Amazon
  • Stream video from Youtube, Hulu, Boxee, etc.
  • Stream music from Rhapsody, Lala, Pandora, etc.
  • Play music CDs
  • Use the Internet in my den while sitting in my La-Z-Boy
  • Store 200 GB of digital media
  • Be my digital photo librarian and slide projector
  • Be my home file and backup server
  • Run everything from one remote

Question 1:  Can a sound card replace an standalone receiver?

Is it even possible for a HTPC to replace my Yamaha receiver?  My current system has Infinity main and center speakers, and Bose for the rear channels.  I never bought a subwoofer.  I’m wondering if I could replace my receiver and speakers with some decent PC speakers or an amplified sound bar?  I’m not a audiophile by any measure, but I like good sound.

Question 2:  What benefits will I get from a more expensive chip?

I’m happy now Windows Media Center is working on my AMD 64 X2 4200+ chip, but would things be much better with a higher powered chip?  For $50-75 I could get a very nice AMD chip.  For $100 I can get a low end Intel Core 2 Duo, or even a AMD X4 chip.  For more than double that I could get a high performance, low watt Intel mobile processor or i5.  What HTPC features benefit from a more expensive chip?

Question 3:  Will onboard graphics be good enough or will I need a good graphics card?

In terms of power consumption and cost, it would be great to live with the graphics built into the motherboard.  I want to watch Internet TV, so how much does the graphics card affect the quality of Hulu and other streaming video sites?  I’m not a big video game fan, but if I could play games hooked up to my big TV that might be fun.  What’s a good green graphics card?

Question 4:  Would I be better off buying or building?

Are there any good HTPC makers that sell systems within the price range of building my own?  It’s a shame Dell can’t sell a Zino with a Blu-Ray player, 1GB drive and dual tuner TV card for $499.  I wouldn’t mind buying a HTPC if it was priced well and came with a warranty, but I’m figuring to get the features I want, at the price I’m willing to pay, will require building it myself.

Question 5:  Is there any reason not to base my system on Windows Media Center?

I’ve been happy with Windows Media Center in Windows 7 for TV recording, so is there any reason to consider another media center application?  I was disappointed that Windows Media Center needed hours to burn a DVD of a 1 hour TV show it had recorded.  Can other media center apps do it much faster?  I’m not sure that Windows Media Center handles large listings of recorded TV shows or MP3 albums very well.  What’s the best program for handling large libraries of media?

Question 6:  How does Hulu and other TV streaming sites look on a large HDTV screen?

I’m worrying about buying a decent video card to stream Hulu TV, but will that investment pay off?  Does TV streamed through Hulu look good on a big TV screen?  I’ll be very disappointed if I buy a video card and Hulu isn’t worth watching.

JWH – 12/28/9

Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1250 and Terk HDTVa Antenna Pro

My wife gave me and my computer a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1250 TV tuner card and a Terk HDTVa antenna for Christmas.  I had to do a lot of research before I gave Santa my wish list, but I must have been a very good boy this year because that research paid off perfectly.  I want to build a HTPC for my den, but I thought I’d experiment first by adding over-the-air TV to my computer.  My previous TV tuner card experience consisted of working with an ATI HD-Wonder card on three different computers over the last three years.  What I learned by playing with that TV tuner card is making TV work on a computer leads to high blood pressure and a desire to seek the simple life.  And I’ve found many a blogger that confirmed this lesson. 

I was very worried that Santa would bring me another lump of coal, but I got a cool toy instead!  I knew it helped to have a computer and graphics card with a certain level of oomph and I was worried my old HP Pavillion a6000n with an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ and NVIDEA GeForce 8500 GT graphic card lacked the horsepower.  I kept reading Best HDTV Tuner for PC’s over and over, looking for clues and advice, and finally figured I needed a tuner card with a PCIe connector to increase the bandwidth between the card and computer.  I was going to go with their highly rated AVertTV HD Duet, but after comparing the buyer’s comments at Amazon with it and the Hauppauge 1250, I decided to go with the cheaper card. 

Both cards are designed to be simple, tuning either over-the-air TV or clearQAM cable signals.  Make sure you have a PCIe slot free if you buy this type of card.  Best HDTV Tuner for PC’s actually seem to prefer USB tuners, but I was afraid to try them because of poor bandwidth issues with my old PCI based card.

I made a very lucky guess because I popped the 1250 in my PC running Windows 7 Professional and the 1250 was recognized and installed automatically.  In fact Windows Media Center did such an excellent job of configuring the card that I decided not to install the Hauppauge media center software or even try out any of the other media center applications, like XBMC, Boxee, SageTV or MythTV.  I’ll save that research for when I build my den HTPC.

The Terk HDTVa antenna also worked out well.  We have two local channels here in Memphis that still transmit on VHF that causes lots of trouble for indoor antenna users.  I tried the Terk without amplification and couldn’t tune in channels 5 and 13, but the Terk tuned them in great after plugging in its amplifier.

The bundled Hauppauge remote did not work out of the box with Windows Media Center, but I went to the install CD and manually ran IR32.exe and bingo the remote was recognized.  I would love to find a way to get this remote to work with other Windows programs.  I’d like to be able to sit in my reading chair and change music from across the room.  I’d especially love to be able to remote control Lala.com.  However, this brings up another issue for dealing with building a HTPC, and that’s the user interface and how visible it is from across the room.

Even sitting right at the computer with mouse in hand, getting to a particular TV show, photograph, film or song takes a lot of clicking.  Windows Media Center works hard to help, offering many ways to search.   I was delighted by searching for albums by their release year.  I also liked searching through my music by album cover.  However, with over 1200+ CDs, it’s hard to find a particular CD.  This isn’t an Achilles heel of Windows Media Center, but a central problem of all media managers.  Try finding a song from 1200+ CDs in iTunes with a remote from across the room.

The ultimate solution is either to have voice commands like in Star Trek, or have a handheld controller like those from Sonos or remote control programs that work with the iPhone or iPod touch.  Having a touch screen UI on the remote is the way to go now.

One thing I immediately liked about Windows Media Center is it allowed me to list only my preferred TV channels in my guide.  I mainly watch PBS, CBS, ABC, NBC and extremely rarely CW and FOX.  I blocked another dozen plus local channels, and I may block CW and FOX.  This makes my onscreen guide very easy to read.  However, I haven’t found out how to make it jump to a particular time and day.  It will take me awhile to explore the depths of Windows Media Center.  From reviews I’ve read, Windows Media Center is a great program, but some of the other media center applications offer tremendous customization (but with steep learning curves).

Windows Media Center is like a super Windows Media Player, with a  UI that scales up with big lettering for watching on a TV set.  When I build my HTPC for the den, and start using it from across the room, while sitting in my La-Z-Boy with a remote in hand, I’ll know then whether Windows Media Center succeeds or not.  I gave up cable TV to save money and have a very simple TV lifestyle, so any solution I keep must be frustration free.

And any HTPC I build must be simple to use too, and so far Windows Media Center and the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1250 fits the bill.  Right now I have a Blu-Ray player, DVD-recorder and CD/SACD player in my den setup, along with a receiver/amp.  I’d love to build a HTPC that replaced all four boxes so all I had was the HDTV and HTPC.  That would save electricity, reduce my pile of remotes, and may make my TV watching more simplistic.  As I get older, simple often means elegant.

My goal for having a TV tuner in my home office PC is so I can record the news and documentaries and watch them while checking email and web surfing.  Setting up recordings was a snap with Windows Media Center  The image quality is excellent for HD broadcasts, so I might even start watching short shows like The Big Bang Theory at my computer too.  I doubt I’d want to watch movies or hour dramas while seated at the computer.  And if I don’t like watching TV at all on my computer screen I’ll yank out the 1250 card and put it into a new HTPC box for the den.

JWH – 12/25/9

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